Thu, Mar 13 2008 - 3:36 PM EDT

Sorry to burst your bubble Brian, but you seem to have your wires crossed. I MUST say that the Bible does not contradict Itself!! Your words, that I have just found, speaking against my brother, Mark Finley, are coming from a direction that is contrary to the Bible in regards to the clean or unclean, the holy or the abominable, as well as in many other things you may be addressing. You may go ahead and eat the unclean if you wish. GOD will not violate your right to choose the unclean or the abominable for your food sources. Yet, the words of the Lord spoken from Genesis to Revelation all come from the same Lord, Jesus Christ!! Now that I have your attention, consider these words from the Lord:

 1 I am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by My name.  2 I have spread out My hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;  3 A people that provoketh Me to anger continually to My face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;  4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;  5 Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in My nose, a fire that burneth all the day.  6 Behold, it is written before Me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,  7 Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the LORD, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed Me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with His chariots like a whirlwind, to render His anger with fury, and His rebuke with flames of fire.  16 For by fire and by His sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many.  17 They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.

Written in different ages, by men who differed widely in rank and occupation, and in mental and spiritual endowments, the books of the Bible present a wide contrast in style, as well as a diversity in the nature of the subjects unfolded. Different forms of expression are employed by different writers; often the same truth is more strikingly presented by one than by another. Isaiah 28:9-13 declares, "9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.  10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:  11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.  12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.  13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." As presented through different individuals, the truth is brought out in its varied aspects. One writer is more strongly impressed with one phase of the subject; he grasps those points that harmonize with his experience or with his power of perception and appreciation; another seizes upon a different phase; and each, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, presents what is most forcibly impressed upon his own mind--a different aspect of the truth in each--but a perfect harmony through all. And the truths thus revealed unite to form a perfect whole, adapted to meet the wants of men in all the circumstances and experiences of life.

GOD has been pleased to communicate His truth to the world by human agencies, and He Himself, by His Holy Spirit, qualified men and enabled them to do this work. He guided their minds in the selection of what to speak and what to write. The treasure was entrusted to earthen vessels, yet it is, nonetheless, from Heaven. And since it was the Spirit of GOD that inspired the Bible, it is impossible that the teaching of the Spirit should ever be contrary to that of the Word. The Spirit was not given--nor can He ever be bestowed--to supersede the Bible; for the Scriptures explicitly state that the Word of GOD is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested. Isaiah 8:20 declares, "To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this Word, it is because there is no light in them."

When the Lord pronounced something like the swine as unclean from the beginning of Creation, knowing fully the purpose for which it was created, it is unlikely that He would, in another area of Scripture, pronounce it as clean. Yet, that old serpent, called the devil and satan, would indeed say things contrary to GOD's Word and also would satan's followers likewise do, and those who are listening to him and agreeing. For he questions every Word from GOD and to accomplish his goal, twist those Words in such a way--a mixture of truth and error--which is very subtle, thus rendering them very poisonous. Hebrews 13:8 tells me: Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever. Personally, after many years of studying my Bible from Genesis to Revelation, I can boldly say that the safest road to travel is the one based on "It Is Written." Matthew 7:13-14; Psalm 119:105; Matthew 4:1-11; Psalm 89:34.

Thu, Mar 13 2008 - 3:38 PM EDT

Sorry Mark, your reasoning is faulty. God may never change, but some of his commandments certainly have. In the Old Testament, those who were not circumcised, were punished by death (Gen. 17:12). The New Testament revealed that circumcision is to be of the heart, and not of the flesh. This is a clear change in the intent of meaning behind the act of circumcision. In the same manner, unclean meat is revealed to be a condition of the heart, not the eating of meat! Jesus himself is the one who changed the definition of the eating of unclean meat!

    There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. [16] If any man have ears to hear, let him hear. [17] And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable. [18] And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; [19] Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? [20] And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. [21] For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, [22] Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: [23] All these evil things come from within, and defile the man.

The Strongs definition of purging, clearly reveals that Jesus was, in fact, speaking about unclean meats!

     Purging   = 2511  katharizo (kath-ar-id'-zo); from 2513; to cleanse (literally or figuratively): KJV-- (make) clean (-se), purge, purify.

 The scripture clearly calls all meats clean and your judgment upon those who eat unclean meat is in error!

 Col. 2:16

    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

 And again!

 Rom 14:1-4 & v.14 to 17

     “Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

    Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

      “I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.  But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.  For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.”

 Yes! He is talking about “unclean” food. Once again, the greek word for unclean is defined as eating food that was once forbidden for the Jews to eat!

 The Greek word for “unclean” is koinos, koy-nos'; probably from Greek 4862 (sun); common, i.e. (litin) shared by all or several, or (cerimonial) profane :- common, defiled, unclean, unholy.

 1 Tim 4:1-5

     Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;  Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;     Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.  For  every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:  For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

 “Every creature...” this includes every creature!  “Nothing to be refused” means “nothing.”

 Luke 10:8     “And into whatsoever city ye enter, and they receive you, eat such things as are set before you:”       

 So then, what should a missionary do when pork is placed in front of him?

 In the same manner, Jesus is the Sabbath rest for everyone who is born again of God’s Spirit! A detail that SDA’s have failed to understand as they seek their salvation through Saturday Worship!

 In Christ,

Brian

Mon, Jun 30 2008 - 1:01 PM EDT

Hi Brian,

I am very sorry to hear that you doubt the Lord and his word so much. Sure some of the old testemant laws(which were written by moses' hand not Gods) have been changed since the begining, but that does not mean that God has changed his law. God's laws are those that are written by his finger,The Ten Commandments. Those never change. I love brother Finley and his teachings, I wish to acknowlege that here. I do not wish to sling bible verses with you. Anyone can take verses from the bible and interpet the verses to thier own selfesh needs. I love my God and my church and I do not consider myself to be better than anyone. I AM A SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST!! I am very proud of that! I just want to proclaim that. I LOVE MY GOD! I do not replace my loving father with Ellen G. White. I do regard her teachings as holy inspired and I do enjoy them, but she is not my savior! I just would like to say that whatever your religion may be I hope that it makes you happy. I may not agree with it, but it is not for me to say that it IS wrong. That is for God to deside.

GOD BLESS

Mon, Jun 30 2008 - 9:50 PM EDT

I don't pass judgment on anyone who wishes to worship our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ on any day of the week. The letter of the Law commands us to work 6 days and rest the 7th. That day can be Saturday, Sunday or any other day of the week! Those who worship our Lord on Sunday, are keeping the law perfectly! Every 7th day, most Sunday worshippers keep the Sabbath! It's the SDA church that passes judgment on the rest of the body of Christ, redefining the word "Sabbath" to mean "Saturday" instead of it's true definition "Rest!"

 Romans 14:4-6
    Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. [5] One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. [6] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. ....

You might like Mark Finley, but the fact is that he has erred in his teachings and my studies reveal his errors.

In Christ,

Brian

Mon, Jun 30 2008 - 10:48 PM EDT

Ok. Well I guess that we will just desagree on this.

I would like to say , that when you make statements such as "I know better than someone else" you are guilty of judging them. You in that statement are making yourself seem better than I or anyone who doesnt belive as you do. As I said before anyone can take verses and use them for their own selfesh purposes.

God gave us free will as just that. We must decide for ourselves what we belive to be true, then God will judge us. I hope that my free will leads me to Him, and I hope yours does too.

God Bless

Tue, Jul 1 2008 - 8:28 PM EDT

Col. 2:16-17
    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: [17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


Jennifer, your judging! You have that same judgmental spirit that runs through the SDA group!

In Christ,

Brian

Mon, Jul 28 2008 - 11:14 PM EDT

Amen for defending God's Word brother:+)

"Jennifer",  Accepting Christ & the bible is Not enough to the Seventh-day Adventist religion; they need more, for example  E.G. White's books.

Where does it say in the New Testament bible that Christ entered the Holy of holies in 1844?

Where is it written in the NT that Non-Sabbath keepers will get the Mark of the beast, particually in the book of Revelation? 

Where in any of the 4 gospels did Jesus say He's an Archangel?

Galatians 5 says those who live under the law have fallen from grace; God's grace that is.....The SDA church fell from God's loving grace and choose to live under the law. 

May you find Christ's truth, peace & grace soon.

With Christ,  Cma 

John14:6 & Rm10:9:+)

Tue, Sep 9 2008 - 12:03 PM EDT

Just a quick note concerning the Ellen White Quote about amalgamation between man and beast. I know it seems kind of absurd, but these things did happen according to the Bible. It talks about it in Leviticus 18: 22-27

 I'll quote the specific parts:

 "You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination. Nor shall you mate with any animal, to defile yourself with it. Nor shall any woman stand before an animal to mate with it. It is perversion...(for all these abominations the men of the land have done, who were before you, and thus the land is defiled)"

Lev. 18: 22, 23, 27

Tue, Sep 9 2008 - 1:36 PM EDT

Sorry Christine, you are wrong! Lev. 18 does NOT declare that Men mating with Animals will produce a new animal spices! The scripture declares that the act of men mating with animals is an abomination (not amalgamation)!

Ellen G. White said "Every species of animal which God had created were preserved in the ark. The confused species which God did not create, which were the result of amalgamation, were destroyed by the flood. Since the flood there has been amalgamation of man and beast, as may be seen in the almost endless varieties of species of animals, and in certain races of men."

Scientifically, the mating of a human with an animal cannot reproduce anything. The Chromosomes have to match up. Most species don't match. For example, horses and donkeys are close, and you'll get a mule, but they are not able to breed. Mules cannot reproduce!

It might be added, that E.G. White said that “certain races of men”, were an offspring of men mating with animals and that these “species” of men were “NOT created by God”. I take great offense to this heresy, as I trust that God shares, and you should be ashamed to believe such non-sense!

Science, as well as the scriptures, has proven E.G. White to be a false prophet! Don’t buy her poison tea!

Sun, Oct 19 2008 - 10:59 PM EDT

Daniel and revelation were being studied in the early 1800's by churches of all kinds. Read up on the 2300 day prophecy. 

Mon, Oct 20 2008 - 12:30 AM EDT

The bible is very clear that the laws have not been done away with. If you read past vrs 16, 1 peter 2:15-21 It is describing that we should also obey our masters and gov officials. Thus Lev 18:22 stating that no man can't sleep with a man as with a woman, its punishment in Lev 20:13 Is not allowed by governments Thou shall not kill...anyone. Because the punishment cannot be fulfilled, Does that give us the ok to be Gay? No!! 

Colossians  Is not talking about its ok to eat anything, but dont listen to those who "...Beguile (Trick) you in your reward..." Col 2:18 Its saying keep on doing the right thing "let them not tell you you are wrong for what meats you eat (or not eat) or what drinks you drink ( or not drink)..." 

Least of all we, SEVENTH-DAY ADVENTIST, Do not seek out salvation thru works. There for we cannot GAIN salvation by going to church on Saturday, But OUT OF LOVE FOR the father, We Try to obey what he has commanded

"If you love me keep my commandments."

http://www.biblehistory.com/The%20Origin%20of%20Sunday%20Worship.html

This web site should also enlighten you on the history of sunday keeping.  

Romans 6:15-22- "What then? Shall we sin because we are not under the law, but under grace? GOD FORBID! Know ye not, that to whom ye yeild yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom you obey: weather of sin unto death, or obedience unto righteousness?..."kjv

Matt 5:17-19 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but fulfill. For Verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever doeth and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." kjv 

Rev 22:14- "Blessed is he who keeps my commandments, that he shall eat of the fruits from the tree of life." kjv

1 peter 1:15+16- "For so is the will of GOD, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciosness, but as a servant of god." kjv

 1 john 3:6- "Whosoever abidethin him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him or known him."

Mon, Oct 20 2008 - 12:47 AM EDT

Gal 5 Is saying that if you try and justify your self as righteous according to the laws you are lost.  Gal 5:17 "For the flesh lusts against the spirit and the spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary you each other so that you cannot do the things that you would."  Just a quick summery of 18-26 If you read on, Its talking abou the fruits of the spirit. That if you believe whole heartedly, the fleshly spirit that we had as sinners cannot prevail in our daily lives. We become meek etc.

Verse 21 really caught my eye though. "...Envyings, murders....they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of GOD."

Tue, Nov 18 2008 - 5:11 PM EST

Wow Derrol, thanks, that is right heaven and earth have not passed away so God's Commandments still stand, all ten of them. I find it interesting that people don't get  that In Leviticus chapter 23:38 God separated the laws that were a shadow of things to come from His Sabbath of the 4th Commandment by stating that these ye shall do "BESIDE THE SABBATHS OF THE LORD". Another thought is that John says that "Where no law is there is no transgression" the Ten Commandments must have existed in heaven or Lucifer could not have sinned by coveting God's position.  Another thing, about diet...we have been accused of forcing vegetarianism, but I have never been scrutinized in my church nor have I heard a sermon on it. I just know that it was God's original plan and that it will be carried out in heaven because there will be no death and Isaiah says the lion will eat straw like the ox. And on the Sabbath issue in the New Testament in Hebrews Chapter 4:4 Paul writes that the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday) still remains.

Thu, Nov 20 2008 - 8:49 AM EST

In continuation, I read some of Brians reasoning for Sunday keeping, the thing is that no man has the right to usurp God's authority by changing it from the Seventh day to the first day of the week. It says in Acts 1 that Paul AS HIS CUSTOM WAS preached in the synaogogue three sabbaths.  Those who keep Sunday the FIRST day of the week give themselves away. It says in Matthew that the women rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment, then went early the FIRST day of the week to Jesus tomb. Christians today give themselves away by honoring Good Friday in which JESUS died, Saturday in which he rested in the tomb according to the commandment, and Sunday the FIRST day of the week in honor of HIS resurrection. We know which day is the 7th day Sabbath, because to this day Easter Sunday is kept as the First day, and you can still go to Israel and see that no labor is done from sundown Friday to Sundown Saturday. Paul wrote that the testator must die before a covenant can go into  effect, therefore, since Christ never mentioned keeping another day rather than Sabbath (Saturday the 7th day of the week) before his death on the cross, that would make Sunday three days too late to be a part of the NEW COVENANT. Christ did show that by HIS being baptised before HIS death that this was in honor of his death and resurrection and HE also added the LORD's supper. He never commanded Sunday in honor of his resurrection. He says in MARK 7:7 Isaiah was right when he said these people worship me with their lips but their hearts are far from me for in vain do they worship me teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. The catholic cathechism is plain they clearly state that they changed the day from Saturdya to Sunday in honor of Christ's resurrection by THEIR authority. Why wouldn't people in America keep Sunday, when our forefathers came to this country they came to escape the persecution of the Church in Europe and managed to carry her traditions here to America, so that American's who don't know their history don't realize they are keeping a tradition of man. Brian also says that the only commands Christ left us was to Love the Lord your God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself, all the law and the prophets hang on these two. I agree with you Brian, but how do we as sinful humans know what love is without Gods commands. The first four show us how God wants us to love Him with all of our hearts by not having any other Gods before HIM and meeting with Him on the day HE made HOLY AND SANCTIFIED, the next 6 show us how to love our neighbor by not stealing, murdering, committing adultery, or coveting anything of our neighbors. There was no argument over which day was the Sabbath in the bible because they knew that it was the 7th day Saturday, there was no argument because Jesus expected HIS disciples to keep it from the stand point HE said in Matthew 24 to pray not that your flight be in the winter or on the Sabbath day, which took place 40 years after HIS death when Titus burned Jerusalem down. History shows that not one Christian who fled as Jesus told them was killed in that destruction. Furthermore, I have never been told in my church that Sunday keepers are lost, I have always been told that Jesus has other sheep that we know not of, I believe that includes all Christians in all denominations who have surrendered to Christ and are allowing HIM to lead them. Our Pastor just did a whole series on Romans and said we are never saved by our works or the law, that it is not about our behavior but about what Christ has done for us on the cross. That we keep God's commands to the best of our understanding out of love for what HE has done for us, but that it is not a license to sin, and sin is the transgression of the law. My husband was a die hard Baptist when we met, not once did I ask him to keep Saturday with me, I did not preach to him, I just went to church read my bible and prayed. The only thing I asked of him when we married was to allow me to worship God according to my conscience which he did. We never slandered each other or fought, he might tease me occasionally but it was okay. We both love Christ. One day I came home from work to find him with his bible out and all of the literature out of my bookshelf and he was devastated to find that his reading of GOD'S WORD had been what he says was superficial or MILK, that never once had he heard a sermon in his church that got into the meat of the scriptures. That was five years ago. I left him to work out his own salvation with prayere and supplication. He was baptised as a SEVENTH DAY ADVENTIST 2 months ago. I have no power of my own only the HOLY SPIRIT can guide a person into all truth, we are all human and err, who are anyone of us to judge another mans heart and make such bold statements as Michael Siemer does by saying that other denominations are going to burn in hell. Man looks at the outward appearance but GOD looks at the heart. I to was taken by the power of God and Jesus Christ out of alcolholism, drug abuse, adultery, and an extremely abusive prior marriage. When the Holy Spirit came upon me I put it all away for good. I didn't just walk into the SDA church and say okay this is truth, I spent three years on my knees night day, day and night praying, reading and sincerely asking God for the truth. He would wake me at three in the morning and lead me to sit until daylight going through HIS WORD and a Strong's concordance until my convictions became so strong about what the Bible says that I wound up in this Church. I have been in the Baptist Church, the non-denominational Church, the Pentecostal church, I have been to tongue speaking non denominational as well as non tongue speaking. Brian God bless you and I pray for you and Michael, please pray for me as well, but please stop judging us, because I can tell you right now, I have always been more open minded to go to other denominations and join in to see what they believe than all of you have been open minded enough to join us and see what we really teach and believe. Never once have I gone into my church to open up one of EG Whites books and study. We open the Bible and study straight from the scriptures from Genesis to Revelation. That is exactly where our Seminars have come from as well. People are amazed when they do come in and find that we open the Bible and go through it deeply rather than just with a couple of scriptures here and there in order to preach a feel good sermon. Thank you for your time, Love Lynn

Fri, Nov 21 2008 - 8:09 AM EST

I need to correct an error in the previous blog, I said that in Matthew the women rest according to the commandment, however; it is stated that way in Luke, not Matthew.

Mon, Dec 1 2008 - 2:05 PM EST

Concerning the Seventh Day Sabbath as a creation ordinance:

Sorry this is off topic but could I get your prayerful comments please concerning Talmud, Sanhedrin 56b: http://thywordistruth.wordpress.com/2008/11/10/a-brief-history-of-shabbat/

God bless!

Wed, Dec 3 2008 - 10:44 AM EST

Facts about the Sabbath

Wed, Dec 3 2008 - 11:44 AM EST

What are u so afraid of, why did u delete the link to the facts of what the Bible says about the Sabbath? Are u afraid someone might read those scriptures and those facts and be convicted? The Scriptures are the facts! That link was no different than your so called facts on your personal sight with the exception that they contain tons of scripture to back why we beleive what we believe. Are you open minded and hearted enough to read it for yourself, or is this site just set up to smear other denominations and and your personal agenda? Thank you Brian for showing your true colors and agenda here, it certainly isn't to get to the bottom of the truth, or you would have also deleted Jim's web sight, but I see he believes somewhat like you do. God bless you and your family :)

Wed, Dec 3 2008 - 1:49 PM EST

Your right Lynn! I'm sure the SDA web site would not want to publish my web pages either. The truth is that the SDA teachings are heretical and my site is not an open forum to publish their teachings! I'm sure if one wishes to learn more about  the SDA church, they will google and find your pages!

We are in disagreement and I have the responsibility to protect readers of my site from false doctrine!

May the Lord Jesus Christ, the only wise God, bless you,

Brian

Wed, Dec 3 2008 - 2:18 PM EST

Galatians 5:4
    Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Romans 14:5-6

     One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. [6] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

Col. 2:16-17
    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: [17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Sabbath (rest) was a shadow of the real thing, which is Christ. He is our Sabbath, not a day of the week!

Matthew 11:28 - Matthew 12:8
    Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.        For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath (rest)

This truth is lost by the SDA people who are justified by the law! They have fallen from Grace!

Wed, Dec 3 2008 - 4:45 PM EST

If I had the time to make my own Seventh Day Adventist Web Site I would be happy to post your info on my site. Because I believe that Christ gave us free will and the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. Your literature doesn't frighten me in the least Brian. I have heard these arguments for years. I have also been in other denominations because I am not afraid because I trust Jesus to guide me and not let me fall from His grace. We fall from grace as Hebrews says, when we WILLFULLY SIN, it says there no longer remains a sacrifice for sin and we crucify the Son of God afresh and trample upon His Grace. You err in the fact that you don't know what that the Bible clearly seperates God's 10 Commandments from the laws of Moses written in a book. And that He also seperates His yearly Sabbaths which were added til the seed should come from His Sabbath of the 4th Commandment. He made it clear in Matthew that not 1 jot or tittle would pass from the law until all was fulfilled and HEAVEN ANE EARTH PASS AWAY. You also misuderstand Hebrews Chapter 4. It is very clear that there is a difference between Katapausis or cessation and Sabatimas.

Wed, Dec 3 2008 - 4:46 PM EST

“There remaineth therefore a ‘keeping of the sabbath’ (see margin) to the people of God” (Hebrews 4:9). I am using the marginal reading of the King James Version because that is the exact, literal meaning of the original statement.
     The context of Hebrews three and four does not indicate that Paul was trying to convince the Hebrew Christians which day to keep holy. They already knew that. His great burden was for them to enter into a spiritual relationship with Christ—to have an experience of rest from the works of sin. He proved that the children of Israel did not find that true rest because of their lack of faith and disobedience in the wilderness. Although the Greek word for rest, KATAPAUSIS, means simply “cessation from work,” the context seems to indicate that the author is talking primarily about finding a spiritual rest in their experience.
     Nevertheless, the two chapters definitely tie the spiritual rest to the Seventh-day Sabbath-keeping initiated and commanded by God in the beginning. Otherwise, we would not find in verse four a direct quote from Genesis 2:2. “For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works” (Hebrews 4:4).
     The reason for citing God’s resting on the Sabbath from His work of creation is revealed only when we analyze verses nine and ten. Paul says that what remains for God’s people is not KATAPAUSIS (a spiritual rest), but SABBATISMAS, meaning a literal keeping of the Sabbath. Then in verse ten we find the real key which proves beyond a question that the SABBATISMAS rest was not spiritual only, but a cessation from physical work. “For he that is entered into his rest (KATAPAUSIS—spiritual rest), he ALSO (in addition to the spiritual rest) hath ceased from his own works, AS GOD DID FROM HIS.”
     The big question about this verse focuses on the works which one ceases from. Are they works of sin? Are they works to obtain salvation? Or are they the physical works from which we cease on the Sabbath? The answer is plainly revealed by the phrase “AS GOD DID FROM HIS.” Go back to verse four and we begin to understand why this quote from Genesis is included in Paul’s discourse. It is necessary to establish which works God did rest from. God ceased from His physical work of creation on the seventh day, and we are admonished to cease from ours, as He did from His. He did not just enter into a spiritual rest on the seventh day or we might conclude that He was not at spiritual rest on the first six days. The fact is that God is always at spiritual rest. Neither did He have any works of sin or the flesh to cease from. He simply rested on the seventh day from His work of creation, and we are being told by Paul that the ones who truly have received the spiritual rest of salvation will ALSO cease from their physical works on the Sabbath, AS GOD DID FROM HIS.
     Don’t you see how this lends a tremendous new spiritual dimension to the keeping of the Sabbath? It memorializes our personal salvation experience. It stands as a blessed weekly reminder of the continual rest from sin that we may have through Christ. No wonder the Sabbath “remains” for the people of God! Our Creator has made it a symbol of the sweetest spiritual blessings available to the human family.
     We can understand why God did this when we pause to think how Sabbath-keeping parallels the salvation experience. What really makes something holy? In Isaiah 58:13 God calls the Sabbath “my holy day” and “a delight.” Listen! It is the presence of God in something which makes it holy. (Remember the burning bush?) God’s presence is in the Sabbath just as His presence is also manifest in the life of a genuine Christian. So why should not true Sabbath-keeping be made a memorial of true salvation in Christ?

Mon, Jan 26 2009 - 6:56 AM EST

Hi. When Jesus was on Earth He recieved much criticism and accusations from His brethren even the Jews. If He were leaving today we the so called Christians could have denied him more than even the Jews. Dont be discouraged when the SDA church is condemned or critisiced on the contrary rejoiced for they persecuted those who were before u. (Matt 5:12-13) Share the light u have at every opportunity u get but if people reject the light that u have. Pray for them. The Lord is able and will vindicate His people in His time. Be Encouraged.

Mon, Jan 26 2009 - 7:14 AM EST

Mark, Debates on Gods Law have exsisted since the time for Christ and a time is coming when those who Kill u will think they are doing Gods will. So Let those who profess to know the truth hold fast to it lest it be taken away from him. When Christ appears in His glory much will be revealed. I'm convinced that these debates are not fruitfull but share whatever light u have to encourage and God will reveal so much to u. Pray for Brian and his ministry that people may find Christ and give their lives to Jesus.

Mon, Jan 26 2009 - 7:42 AM EST

CMA, There are deep truths in the word of God, The Bible that only His Spirit can reveal to us. Ellen White wrote that if anything she mentions that is contrary to the bible then discard what she says. So her writings are not greater than the Bible. They have never been and they will never be.

1844 is a prophetic year derived in Daneil 8:13 onwards. What does your church teach about this verse?

The mark of the beast will be recieved after the legislation of the Sunday Law by the United States. Please follow how the events will culminate there. If it happens when we are alive, please remember this.

Consider Exodus 3:2 where the Angel of the Lord appeared to Moses in a burning bush and later in verse 4 God calls him from the burning bush. Is it strange that Jesus is the Son of God and Son of man at the same time? This is called Parallelism. It is good news for me to know that Jesus Christ is the archangel.

The law of God says do not Kill. Does it mean that is i do this I am under the law? The law says again u shall not take the name of the Lord your God in Vain. Do u do follow this or are u allowed to sin by Grace. please understand what it means to be under the law. U will find that Christians regard all the other nine commandments execpt the sabbath. Why?

I am a Sinner saved by the Grace of Jesus Christ my Lord, God and Saviour. This is what I've learnt in the SDA faith. With the many remarks May God bless u richly.

Your Brother in Christ.

Tue, Mar 24 2009 - 6:11 AM EDT

Hi Brian

 SDA do not JUDGE that if you do not keep the sabbath you will lose your salvation. What we say is that "IF YOU LOVE HIM, KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS". Here is a clear difference. We are blessed with a more truth than many other christians are and we SHARE that with others. SHARING and JUDGING are different words. A little kid can understand it. ALSO it doesn't mean that if you are SDA, then you are saved. There are many hypocrites and pretenders and actors, spiritually dead benchwarmers in the SDA church anyway, just as there are many in different churches. But the point is WHOEVER TRULY IN LOVE WITH GOD IS THIRTSTY AND HUNGRY OF HIS TRUTHS. "Sanctify them through thy word; thy word is truth""Ye shall know the truth and TRUTH shall set you free".

  Jesus is our saviour. Also He is our LORD. For HE loved us first and shewed that love through HIS death, we love HIM. If we love HIM, we acknowledge HIM as our LORD and follow whatever HE SAID. 

I came to SDA church and grilled the pastor whether SDA church has the truth and salvation. HE just kindly showed me HOLY BIBLE and said I can answer your question but don't believe in me. You have bible which is the truth and ask HOLY SPIRIT when you study, so that the turth may set you free.

 Be open minded BRIAN and surrender yourself 100% before the GOD and kindly ask him who is erring, who is lying and who is carrying the truth. 

Tue, Mar 24 2009 - 8:58 AM EDT

The SDA church, in order to build their congregations, use the 4th commandment as a springboard to bring guilt to the worshipper of our Lord Jesus who worships on Sunday! In like mannar, the early Jewish converts made the Gentile Christians feel guilty for the same!

Acts 15:24
    Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

It is fact, that, although the Jewish converts kept the Saturday Sabbath, the Gentile Christians met on the 1st day of the week, being Sunday! In response to  the Jewish converts who brought these charges to the Gentile church, Paul wrote the following

Romans 14:4-6
    Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. [5] One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. [6] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. 

Col. 2:16-17
    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: [17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The SDA church has made every effort to disqualify these words of scripture and nullify Paul's effort to comfort the Gentile church's that they are free to continue to worship our Lord and Savior on the 1st day of the week without condemnation!

Once again, the letter of the law commands to work 6 days, and rest on day out of 7! It is the SDA effort to impose condemnation to the church's that the day of worship can be no other day than Saturday!

It was to this end, that Paul wrote the following to the Galation church who sought Sabbath keeping and circumcision to be saved but in truth, they had fallen from grace!

Galatians 4:9-11
    But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [10] Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. [11] I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.

Thu, Mar 26 2009 - 7:30 PM EDT

Mark you said this

"The SDA church, in order to build their congregations, use the 4th commandment as a springboard to bring guilt to the worshipper of our Lord Jesus who worships on Sunday! In like mannar, the early Jewish converts made the Gentile Christians feel guilty for the same!"

 But I would like to correct this. We don't say that. But we, as SDA, say is that "In order to build our congregation, we use the bible as a springboard

Thu, Mar 26 2009 - 7:32 PM EDT

Mark you said this

"Acts 15:24
    Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:

It is fact, that, although the Jewish converts kept the Saturday Sabbath, the Gentile Christians met on the 1st day of the week, being Sunday! In response to  the Jewish converts who brought these charges to the Gentile church, Paul wrote the following"

We should look this in the context

Paul and others began to preach to more and more Gentiles, hundreds of whom believed. However, many, if not most, of the Jewish Christians just assumed that these Gentiles would be circumcised and become proselytes. They could not conceive of anyone coming into a relationship with God without becoming an Israelite. They continued to discriminate against Gentiles-even against Gentile Christians.

On one occasion, at Antioch, Peter was eating with Gentiles-until certain men from Jerusalem showed up. He was intimidated by their presence and withdrew from the Gentiles, as did Barnabas and others (Gal. 2.11-13). Paul was incensed and corrected Peter publicly- but the incident showed how great their attachment to the law of Moses was. Can we possibly assume that they had already abandoned the Sabbath almost 15 years prior to these events? Hardly! It was not just a man-made custom or Pharisaical tradition. It was the commandment of God!

Paul continued to insist that the Gentiles did not need to be circumcised and come under the national (Old) Covenant with Israel. However, he did uphold very strongly the spiritual laws of God (Rom. 3.20, 31; 7.7-14, 22).

The controversy over whether or not the Gentiles had to become Israelite proselytes grew to such proportions that a major conference was held at Jerusalem around 49 A.D. to settle the question (Acts 15).

The conclusion reached at this meeting was that Paul was correct; circumcision was unnecessary for the Gentiles. However, the leaders did write letters instructing the Gentile Christians to abstain from fornication, from blood, from things strangled, and from foods polluted by idols; these were laws from the Old Testament that were apparently considered of particular importance to the Gentiles (Acts 15.20).

Remember, the whole conference had to do with Gentiles. At that time there was no thought of the Jews forsaking the law of Moses. And in that context, it is obvious that they were not keeping Sunday instead of the Sabbath. It should also be noted that the decision of this conference in no way excused the Gentiles from the moral and spiritual laws of God, including the Sabbath. The issue was whether or not Gentiles had to become proselytes, symbolised by circumcision.

And Jesus said this

            "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfil."

           "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."

Where does Jesus say I have come to change one of my law, that you shall, from this time onwards, meet on 1st day of the week? You indeed wrote that gentile converts met on the 1st day of the week. Where does it say in the Bible? 

Thu, Mar 26 2009 - 7:33 PM EDT

Mark you also said this

"the SDA church builds their walls on the false premise that the Catholic church changed the day of worship to Sunday."

The truth is that this is the truth. Catholics did change the date from saturday to sunday. And they proudly and openly declare that. 

The catholics said this

"If protestants would follow the Bible, they should worship God on the Sabbath day. In keeping the sunday they are following a law of the Catholic church" Alberth Smith, Chancellor of the Archdiocese of Baltimore. Feb 10, 1920

"Not the Creator of the Universe in Genesis 2:1-3, but the Catholic church can claim the honor of having granted man a pause to his work every seven days" S.C.Mosua 'Storia della Domenica' 1969 pp366-67

"Reason and common sense demand the acceptance of One or the other of these alternatives : either Protestantism and the keeping holy of Saturday, or Catholicity and the keeping holy of sunday. Compromise is impossible" The Catholic mirror. Dec 23, 1893

"Q-Which is the Sabbath day?

A-Saturday is the Sabbath day.

Q-Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?

A-We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic church transferred the solemnity from saturday to sunday" The convert's catechism of catholic doctrine 1957 p50

Thu, Mar 26 2009 - 7:34 PM EDT

 Mark you quoted this text

Romans 14:4-6
    Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. [5] One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. [6] He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. 

Please understand Mark, you are taking a slice out of a context to prove your interest.

The overall subject of this passage is that Christians should not be judging one another about disputable matters. 1st verse of the chapter says "disputable matters". Specifically, Paul deals with the subject of those who were vegetarians as opposed to those who ate flesh food. He could very easily have straightened out the dispute by saying "It's okay to eat flesh." But he didn't. Rather, he said, "Don't judge."

It is in this context that Paul mentions, almost in passing, the matter of observing special days. "One man considers one day more sacred than another,- another man considers every day alike" (v. 5). H is counsel: "Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind."

We don't know enough about the problems in the Roman church to be absolutely certain what Paul is referring to. He could have meant special days for fasting, or for feasting, or for abstaining from meat (the primary question at hand). However, it is highly unlikely that he could have been referring to the Sabbath-because, as demonstrated above, he himself observed it and spoke very positively about the Ten Commandments, which included the Sabbath (Acts 13.14, 42, 44; 16.13; 17, 2; 18.4; 21.24- 23.6; 25.8; 26.5; Rom. 7.12, 14, 22).And it is certainly no disputable matter.

The message of Romans 14 is "Don't judge!" It certainly is no proof that the Sabbath of Creation, the Sabbath that Jesus and the apostles kept, was done away with!

Thu, Mar 26 2009 - 7:49 PM EDT

Mark you quoted this text and commented on it.

Col. 2:16-17
    Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: [17] Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The SDA church has made every effort to disqualify these words of scripture and nullify Paul's effort to comfort the Gentile church's that they are free to continue to worship our Lord and Savior on the 1st day of the week without condemnation!

Once again, the letter of the law commands to work 6 days, and rest on day out of 7! It is the SDA effort to impose condemnation to the church's that the day of worship can be no other day than Saturday!

The SDA church has made every effort to exhalt the Bible, only Bible and the truth written therein. Our interest is the truth of the bible. 

Your comment doesn't answer to the text you have quoted. 

Please show your readers from the bible how Paul made effort to comfort the Gentile church that they are free to exempt from God's Sabbath? And also what do you mean by the letter of the law? 

Col 2:16-17 referes to ceremonial law which included  holyday, the new moon, the sabbath days. Lev 23 clearly deals with what were the ceremonial laws all about. They were the shadow of the cross.

Fri, Mar 27 2009 - 8:10 AM EDT

 Acts 20:7
    And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

The Encyclopedia Britannica under "Sabbath" and "Sunday" says. "In the early Christian Church Jewish Christians continued to keep the sabbath, like other points of the law ... On the other hand, Paul from the first days of Gentile Christianity, laid it down definitely that the Jewish sabbath was not binding on Christians. Controversy with Judaizers led in process of time to direct condemnation of those who still kept the Jewish day ... In 321 A.D. Constantine made the Christian sabbath, Sunday, the rest day for the Roman Empire, but it was observed by Christians for nearly 300 years before it became law by Constantine."

The New International Encyclopedia on "Sunday" says, "For some time after the foundation of the Christian Church the converts from Judaism still observed the Jewish sabbath to a greater or lesser extent, at first, it would seem, concurrently with the celebration of the first day; but before the end of the apostolic period, Sunday, known as the Lord's Day, had thoroughly established itself as the special day to be sanctified (set apart) by rest from secular labor and by public worship. The hallowing of Sunday appears incontestably as a definite law in the Church by the beginning of the fourth century; and the Emperor Constantine confirmed the custom by a law of the state."

Ignatius, 30-107 A.D., the second bishop of Antioch and a personal disciple of more than one of the Apostles of Christ, wrote:

".....no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him... let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for “he that does not work, let him not eat.” For say the [holy] oracles, “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread.” But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, “To the end, for the eighth day,” on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ, "

(THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE MAGESIANS chapter 9 A.D. 30-107 )

Fri, Mar 27 2009 - 1:12 PM EDT

Mark you quoted this text

 Acts 20:7
    And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.

Scripture says this

"And the evening and the morning were the first day." Gen 1:5

"from even unto even shall ye celebrate your sabbath" Lev 23:32

"And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto him all that were diseased and them that were possessed with devils" Mark 1:32

In Bible dark part of the day preceded the light part.  Acts 20:7, if you look at in context it was dark. Clearly Paul must have met with the believers on the sabbath and carried on until the even by which the first day of the week began.  

 In book of Acts we can see Paul in context of Sabbath seven times. 

See this Acts 13:14,27,42,44 And also 

Acts 16:13
"And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither."

I can't see any condemnation for observing this day from above text.

Acts 17:2
And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures."

Acts 18:4
"And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks."

What on earth were the Greeks doing in the Jewish synagogues? Have they forgotten that this Jewish day is not binding on them?

Fri, Mar 27 2009 - 1:49 PM EDT

Mark you quoted below sources to defend your interest. It seems THe Encyclopedia Britannica is a sacred scripture for you.

The Encyclopedia Britannica under "Sabbath" and "Sunday" says. "In the early Christian Church Jewish Christians continued to keep the sabbath, like other points of the law ... On the other hand, Paul from the first days of Gentile Christianity, laid it down definitely that the Jewish sabbath was not binding on Christians. Controversy with Judaizers led in process of time to direct condemnation of those who still kept the Jewish day ... In 321 A.D. Constantine made the Christian sabbath, Sunday, the rest day for the Roman Empire, but it was observed by Christians for nearly 300 years before it became law by Constantine."

The New International Encyclopedia on "Sunday" says, "For some time after the foundation of the Christian Church the converts from Judaism still observed the Jewish sabbath to a greater or lesser extent, at first, it would seem, concurrently with the celebration of the first day; but before the end of the apostolic period, Sunday, known as the Lord's Day, had thoroughly established itself as the special day to be sanctified (set apart) by rest from secular labor and by public worship. The hallowing of Sunday appears incontestably as a definite law in the Church by the beginning of the fourth century; and the Emperor Constantine confirmed the custom by a law of the state."

Ignatius, 30-107 A.D., the second bishop of Antioch and a personal disciple of more than one of the Apostles of Christ, wrote:

".....no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him... let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for “he that does not work, let him not eat.” For say the [holy] oracles, “In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat thy bread.” But let every one of you keep the Sabbath after a spiritual manner, rejoicing in meditation on the law, not in relaxation of the body, admiring the workmanship of God, and not eating things prepared the day before, nor using lukewarm drinks, and walking within a prescribed space, nor finding delight in dancing and plaudits which have no sense in them. And after the observance of the Sabbath, let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's Day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]. Looking forward to this, the prophet declared, “To the end, for the eighth day,” on which our life both sprang up again, and the victory over death was obtained in Christ, "

(THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE MAGESIANS chapter 9 A.D. 30-107 )

Here we see how easy it is to slip into nomenclature that finds no place in the scriptures, but yet becomes part of the 'church'. On the other hand, perhaps this is an appropriate term for those who are non-Jewish and follow a religion rather than the scriptures.

 I am sure Mark you love Jesus and you are saved. No one shall judge you but Jesus. But shouldn't we uphold the sacred words of Bible as our true guidance rather than the encyclopedia britannica? 

Nowhere in Bible can we find any text that is to suggest that the sabbath is discarded and the worship on sunday was commanded. Then why do you need to try to prove that is not written in the Holy Scripture?

Rev 1:10 doesn't reveal what day is the Lord's day. But what does Bible reveal is that the Sabbath is the Lord'd day. See Matt 12:8; Mark 2:27-28; Luke 6:5

"And he cam to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read" Luke 4:16

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind." Matth 22:37

"Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day and hallowed it." Ex 20:8,11

"And I saw anothe angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God and give glory to him: for the hour of his judgement is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of water" Rev 14:6-7

"Moreover I also gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them. And hallow my sabbaths; and they shall be a sign between me and you, that ye may know that I am the Lord your God" Ezekiel 20:12,20

"For even hereunto were ye called : because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps" 1 Pet 2:21

"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked" 1 John 2:6

"For I am the Lord, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumer." Mal 3:6

"Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever." Heb 13:8

"If ye love me, keep my commandments" John 14:15

"If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." John 15:10

"He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him" 1 John 2:4

"For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous" 1 John 5:3

"If the true Sabbath had always been kept, there would never have been an infidel or an atheist. The observance of the Sabbath would have preserved the world from idolatry." Ellen G. White Testimonies for the church, pp76

Fri, Mar 27 2009 - 2:05 PM EDT

Dear Mark

I suspect that you might have used Dake's Annotated Bible as a backup for your defense.

 Below commentary might help you understand something.

Finis Dake's Bible is without question filled with questionable commentaries.  It is not the reading material for young, immature Christians or undiscerning ministers.  It has just enough truth to make his error seem plausible and convincing.  He surely has convinced a host of modern day Pentecostals and Charismatics.  No one would suggest that he is singularly responsible for the theological mess that floods these churches, but neither should he be excused for his part.  Often when a figure such as Dake is dead, his teaching becomes even more powerful and accepted.  Godly men and women must return to the simple Word of God and quit depending on popular figures to do their interpreting of truth.  The Bible will interpret itself if you will: "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (II Timothy 2:15).

Source: Joseph Chambers http://www.ovrlnd.com/FalseDoctrine/drakesbible.html

Wed, May 20 2009 - 11:29 PM EDT

I'm going to put this very simply. SDA beliefs come directly from the Bible and are not doctored.  The problem with most religions is they read one chapter of the Bible & try to come to a conclusion on a single topic. To understand the Bible you must search and really want to know God...so read the Bible front to back and you will find ALL the SDA beliefs will appear as clear as day! Thank You & God Bless

Mon, May 25 2009 - 4:45 PM EDT

I believe my website shows otherwise! Jen's comment is biased.

Any cult can read scripture and create false doctrine, and claim it comes from the Bible.

I cannot find the Investigative Judgment anywhere in scripture! Jesus entered the Holy of Holies the very day he ascended into heaven nearly 2,000 yrs ago.

Mark 16:19
    So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.

Shall the SDA's place the Holy of Holies in another room seperated from God himself, who is the Holiest of all?

Another point. Which scripture clearly says that Jesus IS Michael the Archangel? If you wish to argue this point, please read my page on this issue

Is Michael the Archangel... God? Jesus is God!

Wed, May 26 2010 - 1:32 AM EDT

"You shall judge a tree by its fruits." 

That is from the Bible, Jesus said it.  Matthew 7:16 

If another is going against the Bible, then it is not sinful to point out the sin.

The Bible did not change the rules half-way through.  If that is true; then why is it a sin to kill, steal, lie, commit adultery, etc.?

If one commandment was not meant to be kept forever and be considered blessed, then why are we still following the rest, how do we know that the others were also not done away with??!

Wed, May 26 2010 - 1:37 AM EDT

Just because some guy says that Sunday is the Sabbath are you really going to believe him???!!!!

Jesus said to keep all His commandments, and according to my observations Catholics don't follow God's commandents (not all of them).  They only observe the ones that are convenient for them.  The Catholic Church has had a long history of making up new rules and doctrine.

Thu, Dec 29 2011 - 1:01 PM EST

Thu, Dec 29 2011 - 1:44 PM EST

There are a few errors that I have found in your post about Seventh Day Adventist :

1. In Col 2:16-17 it says let no man judge you in meat, drink, respect of holydays, new moon and sabbath days. DId you realise that it that it says sabbath days. Look at Lev 231-44 esp vs. 38 it says sabbath days. Hence more than one sabbath days. Now the Seventh Day Sabbath is the Sabbath of the Lord it was instituted before Moses in Gen 2:2 and even found itself on the 10 commandments? Now if the laws on the ten commandments are done away with does that mean we can kill and bare false witness against our neighbour? No the 10 commandments that were given on Mnt Sinar, placed in the ark and in heaven. So the seventh day Sabbath is the Lord's sabbath ( Ex 31: 13-17, ( the sabbath instead of sabbaths vs15. Also in the new Jerusalem persons will agther before God every Sabbath Jer 66:23). So if the Sabbath wasnt important why then would the catholics try to change it in their list of the 10 commandments?

Another thing to note is that no where in the Bible did the disciples worship on Sunday ( the first day of the week) it was always the Seventh day. After the death of Christ they met with gentiles ang jews to preach on the Sabbath day ( Acts 17:2; 16:13;18:4;15:21;13:42-44). Now according to Heb 4:7-11 If Jesus had given another day of rest  would He not of told His apostles. Just as how God rested on the seventh day so therefore should man rest.  The diciples only gathered about twice on the first day. Paul was leaving so they gathered to eat to break bread ( Acts 20:7)and also to collect money not to worship. ( 1 Cor 16: 2). Who best know the Sabbath day as the Jews?

The Jews have to turn to the teaching of the Gentiles to be saved.( Rom 11:8-11). This simple mean that when they rejected Christ he left there house ( place of worship ) desolate Matt 23:38 & Luke 13:35). We need to remember that Christ was not apart of the Jew's Church at the time He was disfellowed because they refused to accept Him as Christ because they were caught up in making the commandment a burden to the people. The 70 week prophecy in Dan 9:24-27 was the probation of the Jews to choose to remain as God's choosen people. They killed The Christ and stoned Stephen through this time and it was ended in AD 34.

To learn more about the phrophecy email heartofkisses@yahoo.com

Tue, Jul 3 2012 - 4:42 PM EDT

Please let us address matters of Faith and biblical principle in God's name and fear, our object is the same, we want to be sanctified by the truth.

Regarding the question on Health by Mark Finley, this is my viewpoint

In Mark 7 verses 1-3, Jesus is confronted with a Group of religious leaders, called Scribes and Pharisees, one thing Jesus also said about this group in the gospel of Matthew 23 verses 1-6, is that they seat in Moses seat. Moses was a judge (Exodus 18: 15,16), his duty was to make people know the counsels of God, and one of the counsels of God he wrote in one of his books esp in Leviticus 11, was about food clean and unclean.

What i am trying to point here is that the Pharisees and Scribes knew as far as food and meats were concerned, they knew what they would and would not eat basing on the regulations, God had laid in His word through Moses. The Problem was that in addition to God's laws, this group had their added customs (Mark 7:3-5), these customs they termed the tradition of the Elders, and this is the error Jesus attacks, Mark 7:6-13. Matthew 15:20, Jesus then says eating with unwashen hands does not defile a man.

However God today has a problem with those who do not set, the distinction clear between things according to His word Ezekiel 22 verses 25,26.

Wed, Jul 4 2012 - 11:50 AM EDT

Hie CMA

I am a Seventh Day Adventist,..and i'm glad that you questioned our position regarding the message we carry and preach, i am writing this informing you that,..if you don't mind we can email each other and i promise to attend to your questions with the bible and the bible only, and you can even specify the version you would want me to use as long as it is the one Universallly accepted.

As intelligent Christians we have to have sound Biblical explanation regarding the things we hold and believe, and its so good to question out of a good conscience those things one may find themselves in doubt.

i hope we will learn from one another through prayer and bible study. My email address is (adriana186@yahoo.com)

stay blessed.

Fri, Sep 28 2012 - 9:38 PM EDT

A former Southern Baptist Christian, I have been a Seventh-day-Adventist Christian now for over 30 years. I must take expection to your statement that: 

"Some SDA groups continue to teach that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, not Almighty God himself.  This heresy was taught by E.G. White and the early SDA group! This is a damnable doctrine, a doctrine that will cause you to die in your sins and perish, and will seperate you from the living God for all eternity."

I agree that this a damnable false doctrine, but strongly disagree that this is taught in the mainline SDA church. I have never heard this preached at all. I must doubt your source for this information. I can't find it anywhere. Many of the early members, including Ellen Harmon, were very young when they were called by God to form a Bible study. God called them from various brackgrounds. Many were Baptist and Methodist. Others, of varied faith backgrounds came to these studies. This was decades before the Seventh-Day-Adventist church was established. Some, who came to these early meetings undoubtly brought with them errouneous beliefs at that time. These folks either left the studies or gave up their errant views as the group or movement saught a clear understanding of the Holy Scriptures.

Thu, Jun 6 2013 - 10:13 PM EDT

Hi Brian:

Just a couple of things

a) no matter what you think about eating meat or not eating meat, there won't be any death in Heaven.  Read the end of Isaiah. 

b) all the patriarchs and prophets worshipped and kep the Sabbath.  Every one of them.  Paul didn't teach people to worship on Sunday.  Just flip through your Bible--all those sent of God worshipped on the Sabbath.

c) there are many instances of women prophets in the Bible.  One of the issues Paul was confronting was noise in churches of the day.  The women sat on one side, the men on the other.  This was a practice in many churches.  Women in church should "learn in silence", as should the rest of the congregation, and not be disruptive, yelling back and forth across the aisle to have matters explained.  Save that until afterwards.

d) if a soul is self existent and eternal, what do you really need a savior for?

e) "forever" in reference to "hell" is the same as Sodom and Gomorrah burning "forever".  Are they still burning?  No.  Go to the Dead Sea and look at them.  They were burned and destroyed "forever".  The consequences are forever.  Research it.

 Spiritual things are spiritually discerned.  You should pray before you read your Bible that God's Spirit will guide your discernment.

Sun, May 18 2014 - 8:55 PM EDT

DID THE 1ST CENTURY CHURCH HAVE NEW TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES?

Tue, Nov 10 2015 - 10:05 AM EST

After reading your list of things  Day Adventist believe HOW can you say some of them are born again Christians?  If you change who Christ is you are NOT born again.

Thu, Jun 2 2016 - 7:59 AM EDT

Sounds justifiable. SDA's might be a cult group or a heretical movement. I don't like them either. But I like some of their teachings because those are purely biblical stuffs I've ever found in any other denominational teachings.

Maybe I need to read my bible again to see how devil is decieving people today. The most scariest part is when clergy's and servants of God misinterpret the bible because they lack the Holy Spirit's guidence (sound mind).

Truth coated with err is always a heritical movement. Where can we find an organisation or denomination that claim to poses truth but is coated with err? Is the SDAs? Jehovah Witnesses? Pentecostals? or you name it.

May the Lord help us use biblical lense to judge heresy

Tue, Jul 30 2019 - 11:40 AM EDT

Actually, you are correct that the old heavens and earth have not passed away, but you miss one important thing.  Upon His resurrection, Jesus became the Firstborn over a NEW creation, and all who are IN CHRIST are new creations.  We are no longer a part of the old creation, for our flesh is dead, crucified with Christ.  While our flesh is dead because of sin, our spirits are alive because of righteousness.  We no longer live because Christ is our life.  And that is the very essence of the Sabbath.  Our rest is found in death.  Just a Jesus rested in death on the Sabbath, so also those who have crucified the flesh have entered His Sabbath rest and have been resurrected to a new life.  We have recieved the firstfruits of the Spirit, and when Jesus returns, we will be filled with all the fullness of God.  The Law as part of the old creation still stands to judge those who are born in Adam, for that was the only purpose of the Law.  But for those in Christ who are born again, born of God, we live by the Spirit.  We are partakers of God’s divine nature.  Does a cow need to be told how to eat grass and chew the cud?  No, it is the nature of a cow to do these things.  So it is with those born of God.  The law was a tutor given to an immature people, the children of Israel, who could not understand spiritual things.  As children, those under the law cannot bear fruit.  In the fulness of time Israel became a man in the person of Jesus Christ.  Through the Spirit, the body of  Israel has come to fulness, now able to bear the fruit of righteousness which cannot be born throught the law